Converting Leads to Listings: Secrets of Real Estate Team Success

Lessons from a Top-Performing Real Estate Team: Accountability, Culture, and Leveraging Leads

In the competitive world of real estate, building a successful team involves more than just selling properties—it requires a strategic approach to lead generation, agent accountability, and cultivating a strong team culture. Mike Smallegan, a seasoned real estate professional from Grand Rapids, Michigan, has fine-tuned these elements to lead a thriving team that includes 14 full-time agents, 4 part-time agents, and dedicated support staff. His insights, shared during a recent episode of The OT Only Teams for Real Estate Podcast, offer a roadmap for others looking to replicate his success.

Accountability and Lead Conversion

At the core of Mike’s team’s success is a focus on accountability, particularly in handling Zillow leads. Weekly Zoom meetings are a staple for the team, where they review recorded phone calls from the previous week. Agents openly share what worked well and identify areas for improvement. This practice not only fosters a culture of continuous learning but also strengthens their collective performance.

Mike emphasizes the importance of treating Zillow leads as valuable opportunities rather than just numbers. This mindset is critical because the team’s Zillow budget is directly tied to their conversion rates. High conversion rates allow for more investment in leads, creating a cycle of growth and opportunity. The team’s 14-page booklet, filled with scripts and processes for converting internet leads, ensures consistency and accountability. Additionally, they utilize Follow Up Boss to track leads and maintain activity standards, keeping everyone on their toes.

Leveraging Listings and Client Relationships

Innovative strategies for leveraging listings and nurturing client relationships are another hallmark of Mike’s approach. The team employs a “coming soon” period for new listings, generating buzz and managing showings before the official go-live date. During this period, they gather showing data to send targeted emails to potential buyers, addressing their questions and providing tailored information.

Client relationships are treated with the same level of care. One standout initiative involves supporting local teachers through Amazon wish lists. This thoughtful gesture not only strengthens the team’s community ties but also creates deeper emotional connections with their clients. By maintaining strong relationships, Mike’s team ensures repeat business and a steady stream of referrals.

Building a Thriving Team Culture

Team culture is a cornerstone of Mike’s success. Weekly team meetings are structured to discuss personal updates, business progress, and contributions from team members. Recognizing and appreciating each other’s efforts fosters a supportive and collaborative environment.

Mike has also implemented a tiered commission structure to reward top producers. This system encourages continuous improvement and healthy competition, motivating agents to strive for their best. Importantly, agents are involved in key decision-making processes, such as brokerage changes, which strengthens their sense of ownership and commitment to the team’s success.

The team’s culture is built on transparency, trust, and mutual support—values that have not only helped retain agents but also driven outstanding performance. New agents are integrated into the team with clear expectations, such as building their database and working through a “pond” of old leads. These requirements, coupled with a supportive environment, help set them up for success.

Adapting to Challenges in the Real Estate Market

The ever-changing real estate market presents challenges, but Mike’s team has demonstrated remarkable adaptability. From navigating the disruptions of COVID-19 to addressing shifts in buyer compensation, the team approaches changes with confidence and clear communication. Mike’s proactive leadership ensures that both clients and team members feel informed and supported during transitions.

One notable example is their use of direct mail campaigns featuring QR codes. This strategy has proven effective in driving engagement, demonstrating the team’s ability to combine traditional methods with modern technology. By staying agile and embracing innovation, Mike’s team continues to thrive, even in uncertain times.

Tools and Technology for Success

Technology plays a pivotal role in the team’s operations. In addition to Follow Up Boss, the team uses Slack for continuous communication, ensuring everyone stays connected and informed. Weekly Zillow lead calls, combined with meticulous tracking of productivity metrics, keep the team accountable and aligned with their goals.

Performance metrics, such as leads received, appointments set, and conversion rates, are shared during team meetings using presentations. This transparency helps agents understand how their efforts contribute to the team’s overall success. It also provides a clear benchmark for improvement, driving a competitive yet collaborative spirit among team members.

Insights for Real Estate Professionals

Mike’s strategies offer valuable lessons for real estate professionals at all levels. His emphasis on accountability, clear processes, and team culture underscores the importance of creating a strong foundation for growth. The ability to adapt to market changes and leverage technology further enhances the team’s resilience and effectiveness.

Conclusion

Mike Smallegan’s real estate team exemplifies what it takes to succeed in a competitive industry. By prioritizing Zillow lead conversion, leveraging listings and client relationships, and fostering a thriving team culture, Mike has built a model for sustainable growth. His insights, shared during The OT Only Teams for Real Estate Podcast, provide actionable strategies for anyone looking to elevate their real estate business.

As Mike reminds us, success in real estate is about more than just closing deals. It’s about building systems, cultivating relationships, and empowering your team to achieve their full potential. With these principles in mind, any real estate professional can take their business to the next level.

Transcription

Announcer 00:00

Welcome to the OT only teams in real estate.

Mike Smallegan 00:16

Yeah, and I always remind them too, that, like it’s not my money that’s on Zillow. Like, if it was me and these were this, this was my money that I was spending, then I wouldn’t be spending this much. But it’s, it’s theirs, right? So if they’re not converting at a high level, like, we’re gonna have less money to spend on Zillow leads. So if they want more opportunities, they got to do a better job at converting and take the ones that they have seriously, and that’s how our budget goes up. But I would say, if a lead is in your year a database for a year, it’s not really that source anymore. That is the, you know, cause or the conversion of the lead, it’s whatever you’ve been doing since then. So it really does the source change on paper? No, it never changes. But I in my head, yeah, it does change because you have to do more to convert it than just receive it from the lead source.

Announcer 01:21

Here’s your host, Daren Phillipy,

Daren Phillipy 01:23

everybody, welcome to this week’s ot only team for real estate agents. My name is Daren Phillipy. I’m your host, and got a great one today. Mike Smallegan, from Grand Rapids, Michigan. I met him at Mega camp a little while ago, and I said, Please, please, please, come and share with us what you got. You guys gonna love this. He’s gonna share, basically, kind of give us a rundown of his his meeting that he has with his team, what that looks like for accountability, what numbers they’re looking at, and it talks a lot about what he does to build culture. So you’re going to love it. Now, one of the things, though, is you do know that you could be in these calls every Tuesday at 1130 all you need to do is go to only for teams.com click that. Join the Zoom Room at 1130 Pacific Standard Time, you could also be in the room. So that’s kind of what I want you to do. At 1130 every Tuesday, jump in the room and you can hang out with guys like Mike and all these other people that we’ve been talking to. So until then, I’m going to see you guys at the end of this OT. Have fun. Take lots of notes. It’s going to be good. Alright, guys, welcome to the OT this week. Super, super excited to spend some time with with Mike. He me and him met at Mega camp 2024 and started to chat. And I said, Oh my gosh, I think you’d actually be a really good fit to come on and share time talking to people on the OT. So Mike small again, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us a little bit about your team. Yeah. About

Mike Smallegan 03:03

your team. First off, I appreciate you giving me one of those postcards, because it started the conversation. So they do work right? Direct mail postcards, hand to hand. So that’s awesome. So I’ve been in real estate about 11 years. I got started, originally started on a team, and team fell apart. Here I am kind of rebuilding. So I started my team in 2015 only two years after I got into real estate. So so my team, we have 14 full time agents, four part time agents, and then I have a Director of Operations who also does our transaction coordinating. And then I have a sales manager who does some accountability and manages our sales meetings and puts together reports for us. And then I have a full time social media marketing manager who does an awesome job of creating video and content for us to become famous on social media. So we do a lot with like Instagram and Tiktok, and he’ll record videos and post them as me. Most of the Facebook posts that I have, he actually did and, you know, with my input, I guess, but it’s really done a lot for building our brand, and even with people that I, you know, talk to every day. They recognize me more because of the social media stuff. So that’s kind of a layout of our team. Every agent on our team does both buying and selling. I know that’s not mrea, but we, we all do both buying and selling. I do a little bit of buying and selling. Still, I like doing it, but I do pass off a lot of my sphere or past client buyer leads, and then I work more with the sellers that I’ve worked with in the past.

Daren Phillipy 04:55

Awesome, awesome, and you’re based out of grand. Grand Rapids, Michigan, right? So we’re,

Mike Smallegan 05:01

we’re West Michigan, so I’m in Grand Rapids. My team covers a pretty big area of West Michigan, so we were basically anywhere from an hour from Grand Rapids. We do everything, both online and in person, so our team meetings are always broadcast on on Zoom, so people that are remote can kind of hop in and take part in that. And we utilize a Slack channel. So that thing is going non stop with, you know, people answering and asking questions. So it’s kind of to build community digitally

Daren Phillipy 05:38

awesome. I’d like to talk a little bit more about about using slack when we get to the leverage portion of it. And then we also, you caught me up, the numbers that we you shared with me, is 265,000 or sorry, 265

Mike Smallegan 05:52

units. And the last 12 months, our goal this year is to do 300 transactions. And yeah, then we have a tentative trip plan. We haven’t figured that out yet, but I made that offer in the beginning of the year that if we hit our goal of 300 transactions, we’re going to go on a trip that we’re going to decide where at in like, September, October, so,

Daren Phillipy 06:18

so and your vision? Is that like across the the lake, or is it like Vegas?

Mike Smallegan 06:23

Well, it was going to be family reunion, but that family reunion is in Vegas. Again, a lot of people aren’t excited about that, so we’re disappointing you.

Daren Phillipy 06:33

Mike, yeah, so let’s, let’s talk a little bit about this super cool by the way. I love that. How do you feed your leads? How do you feed your team with all the leads that you got? So

Mike Smallegan 06:45

we’re a big Zillow team, so we have a pretty substantial monthly spend with Zillow. There’s criteria for agents to get on Zillow as new agents, they have to attend our weekly zoom call. So every Friday, at 9am we actually get on a zoom call. As anybody that wants Zillow leads has to get on this zoom call, and we’ll actually play the phone calls from the previous week. So going through Zillow, everything is recorded, and those calls you can pull up in the Zillow app or whatever, and we play the phone calls for the entire team in the first person to talk is the person whose phone call it was and it did. They’re supposed to say what they did well and what they could do better. And after that, if anybody else has feedback or gratitude or appreciation for that that phone call, then we kind of go around and anybody that wants to comment can comment. And comment, we go to the next call. So that kind of does a couple things. One, it creates a extreme level of accountability, where you know if your calls are going to be played for 15 other people that are going to judge you, because you’re you’re taking a lead that they might have been able to close you’re going to do a better job, and also it, it helps us learn from each other’s mistakes. So we get to listen to how somebody might have handled an objection, or, yeah,

Daren Phillipy 08:18

you know that that is really smart, Mike, if you’re going to take a lead, we’re going to judge

Mike Smallegan 08:25

you. Yup. So we’ve been doing that for about two years. My Zillow rep said that he’s never heard of anybody doing that, and that was kind of in the beginning. And now he’s he’s got a lot of his other teams kind of following a similar model. We spend too much money on Zillow to just let the leads kind of go into the trash, or to let somebody that doesn’t really want it work it. So that’s one way we kind of hold them accountable. We always use smart list too.

Daren Phillipy 08:54

How have you how is that those recordings and those calls impacted your team and the skills and the mentality and all that stuff, because I think that’s

Mike Smallegan 09:04

genius. So most weeks, there’s occasionally a slip up where somebody you know woke up in the wrong side of the bed or something. But most weeks, I struggle to try to find something to talk about, right? So most of the time, everybody that’s taking the calls does a pretty good job at handling the objection, setting the appointment. We actually now, which is something that I’m willing to share with anybody. We put our entire like, how we convert internet leads into a 14 page booklet that, because I kept getting the feedback from the team, oh, there’s nowhere in writing that we have to do this, or we have to do this because you tell one person, and then you think you tell everybody. So we got it all in writing, and our processes and scripts and dialogs that we use is all in that booklet now, so they have no excuse. That

Daren Phillipy 09:56

is super red. And then what? Yeah. With that, you’re able to hold them accountable and say, the process says this is what we do,

Mike Smallegan 10:05

yeah, and I always remind them too, that, like, it’s not my money that’s on Zillow. Like, if it was me and these were this, this was my money that I was spending, then I wouldn’t be spending as much. But it’s, it’s theirs, right? So if, if they’re not converting at a high level, like we’re going to have less money to spend on Zillow leads. So if they want more opportunities, they got to do a better job at converting and take the ones that they have seriously. And that’s how our budget goes up. If we our conversion level goes down, which we’re around, like a 10 or 12% conversion rate, last I checked, which is pretty good. I think we can get to 15, but if we can get to 15, we’re going to have more money for a bigger Zillow budget. Love that.

Daren Phillipy 10:52

So above away from Zillow. What else do you do to

Mike Smallegan 10:57

get leads? We do a pretty good job at staying in touch with our past clients. Recently signed up with fellow about six months ago, and I feel like that’s a game changer, just kind of insight into what people are doing and what they’re looking at. So it gives us another touch point to reach out to somebody. We also send out. It’s we’re using the fellow QR code too, but we’re sending out just sold postcards using Every Door Direct. So Every Door Direct is super cheap. I don’t know if you guys do that, but for our area, Every Door Direct is like, like, $150 for 500 houses. And then we just print postcards and send them like, hey, a home in your neighborhood just sold scan this QR code to find out what yours is worth, and we use that fellow QR code too. So that’s been a new lead gen for us. And you know, we do, we also have a pond. So new agents, when they start with us, they are able to get into the pond, which is basically old leads that somebody else gave up on. So everything goes into there. We continue to like, send them drip emails, property alerts. We remark it to them on Facebook, using their phone number and email address with our website. So they can, like, kind of how when you go to Amazon and search for something, then you start seeing it everywhere else. That’s kind of what we do with real estate. So when it comes to targeting them,

Daren Phillipy 12:29

so when it comes to the pond, one of the things I’ve heard from a handful of of teams is, ah, the agents are complaining or saying, Oh, these guys have bunch of people. You know, these are old leads, or no good leads, or anything like that. How do you help change the mindset of that on personally,

Mike Smallegan 12:49

I’ll pick up the phone and make 20 calls in front of them and give one of those nurtures to someone else. So, yeah, I think, I mean, that’s, that’s what I do, but it’s funny. I think it’s mindset right? Like, if they think that they’re all bad and no opportunities are in there, then then that’s what they’re going to be. But we there was some something that Jeff Glover shared one time that was basically an upside down pyramid that showed every dial is worth $19 that I have that too in one of my in Canva. But every dial is worth $19 if you look at a conversion being worth, let’s say, $4,500 whatever your average commission is, right, if you take and make 200 dials, those 200 dials should turn into something like 20 conversations. Those 20 conversations should turn into like five or six nurtures, those five or six nurtures, should turn into two or three active clients. And then those two or three active clients should turn into one to two closing. So if you look at, you know, the end as being what you get from a closing, you have to start somewhere, and you have to get a lot of nos before you get a yes too. So if you go in, into it with that expectation that you’re going to make a bunch of dials, and not all of them are going to be, you know, ready to go, but what’s the difference between a Zillow lead and another email address and phone number that you have in your database? There’s not much. There’s still people that they still have some timeline of probably making a move, whether it’s in six months or six years, it’s still a nurture. It’s still somebody you can put in your pipeline and stay in touch with them every you know couple months, and just let them know that you’re there when they’re ready to make a move.

Daren Phillipy 14:55

Love it. Love that. Are you? Is there a standard for. Guys to lead gen as a group, or do a certain amount of contacts or set a certain amount of appointments. So we do

Mike Smallegan 15:07

it based on productivity. So something that I was talking with my and I didn’t look at it this way, but my maps coach said that every spot you have on your team has a value to it because of what you provide, and the opportunities that are are, you know, coming in, and then the admin that you have. So we determine that an average agent, without any sphere, should be able to do two transactions a month or 20 transactions a year. So that’s the goal. So as long as they’re keeping up with that minimum standard, the two transactions a month or 20 a year. We don’t have many requirements for them, but if they’re behind that mark, right, not on track to do 20 transactions this year, then they have to make so many phone calls, I believe it’s 200 a week in order to stay on Zillow and first acclaim and we talk about so we our Wednesday meeting is a sales meeting that I have a whole slideshow and presentation that we go through and show how many leads came in. Are people keeping up with their smart list? Who’s on track to hit their goal, and if they’re on track to hit their goal, then, then that’s what we’re looking for. But if they’re not on track to hit their goal, then they have to do something to contribute to the team, which is that 200 phone calls to the pond.

Daren Phillipy 16:32

Yeah, I think that’s super smart. I’ve never heard anybody share Jay, I see you raising your hand. You know you can’t ask those until just write it down. Tough guy, write it down.

Mike Smallegan 16:45

Your blur is on, Jay. Can’t read it.

Daren Phillipy 16:50

That’s don’t. Yeah, don’t worry about Jay. So I actually, really, I haven’t heard a whole lot of teams sharing. Hey, we got X amount of leads this week and or this in that stand up meeting. How does that impact your your agents?

Mike Smallegan 17:12

I think it shows them that there is opportunities coming in. I’ll share my presentation. Kind of go through it real quick. Yeah, I’d love to see that could be valuable. So you see my screen, Yes, yep. So this is what we go through every week. This was last week’s present or no, this is tomorrow’s actually. So my admin update this for me every week. So looks like we’re going to do a round table discussion on the changes, really, that have been happening, and what are the issues that we’re running into. Then we talk about our mission vision value every week. So and I kind of make somebody from the team actually figure out what our mission statement is. We don’t put the whole thing there. I call on somebody to say it out loud so consistently improving and doing the right thing to positively impact life. So that’s our mission statement. But somebody else has to say that every week, and we talk about one of our values, and how is this value demonstrated in our team? So that’s every week we talk about that, and it’s a different one of these every week. This is the leads versus appointments. So every, every week, this is updated. So we’ve received 359 leads. This is probably updated. Maybe this, I this feels like it was last week’s number. So this might be not. She updates this on some of it on Wednesday morning. So it’s up to date. But then we talk about, how many appointments did we go on? So, so we’ve went on 278, appointments, and received 359, leads. They should kind of go together, right? And if you see a bunch like this month, we received a ton more leads. So there should be more appointments, you know, this month and this month. So, right? Right. So this is our conversion rate. So our goal is 10% on Zillow, and every week we track this to see where we’re at, and looks like we’re down to 8.7 so I don’t so what we look at is leads received in the last year, and are they closed now? So if the lead is older than a year, we don’t, we don’t include that in our conversion numbers, overdue tasks. This is from follow up boss, probably not something that everybody would be so we have smart list. So every this is where I mentioned, if they’re not keeping up with their smart list, they get their leads paused. So this is everybody on the team, and if they’re in the gray, they don’t get Zillow live, and then, which is like the live connections through Zillow. And then if they’re in the red up here, they don’t get our first acclaim leads or our Zillow live. So they pretty much just be working what they have in their data. Base. So we talk about how many calls each person made, how many conversations they had. Everything is done through follow up boss. So our our dials, our text, everything goes through there appointments. So this is so they can see as a team, kind of the forecast. So like we look at every month, we look at how many closings did we have. So in July, we had, you know, 28 closings. Last year July, we had 27 the year before July, we had 22 so if we’re we’re trying to beat the last month pretty much every month. So that should give you an idea of like, where this August should end up, or where this September should end up. And if we look at it every week, it becomes a real thing. And then, yeah, 183 close so far this year, which I think this hasn’t been updated either. That feels like last week’s numbers, but, and this is that that number where I said they have to keep up with the minimum standard, which is this dotted line. So if they’re most people are above the 20 transactions a year line, or on pace to do more than a 20 a year. So they don’t have any like goals or anything they’re supposed to do, but if they’re behind, then they need to do stuff to get caught up.

Daren Phillipy 21:30

So good.

Mike Smallegan 21:37

That’s pretty much that. But we’ve been doing that for almost two and a half years, and it, it, I think, is helping kind of have the team have a better understanding of where we’re at, as far as our goals, and how many leads are coming in, and where other people are at, because people are on the team are naturally competitive. They they don’t want to be behind everybody else substantially. So they’ll, they’ll do what they need to to kind of stay with the pack.

Daren Phillipy 22:05

So smart that is, that is so smart, and it’s, it’s great to see. You can see who’s winning, and you can see who’s not. And we’ll talk a little bit about that in the leverage portion. There anything else you’d like to share with us on the leads portion of your business?

Mike Smallegan 22:26

No, I guess it’s it is a hard thing to like. I know tracking your sources is super important, and we talk about a lot about where the sources are coming from, but I would say if a lead is in your year a database for a year. It’s not really that source anymore. That is the, you know, cause or the conversion of the lead. It’s whatever you’ve been doing since then. So it really does the source change on paper? No, it never changes. But I in my head, yeah, it does change because you have to do more to convert it than just receive it from the lead source,

Daren Phillipy 23:01

you said, you said last thing, I’ll ask you. Then you said that you do, you know you work your database, sphere of influence and things like that. Is there anything that you do really cool and unique with your your database or your sphere of influence?

Mike Smallegan 23:17

Not really. I think I could take something from the guys last week, which is, do more for, like, client appreciation events, or to stay in touch with my database. I do something kind of personally, and I’m trying to encourage other people on the team to at least tell me who these people are. But I I try to, like, I have a bunch of clients that are past or that are teachers, and I get their Amazon wish list, and I’ll put a post on Facebook, and I’ll say, if you’re a teacher, I know how hard it is for teachers. Share your Amazon wish list in my in my comment section, and if you feel inclined buy something off there for a teacher. And a lot of times I’ll just skip bored and I’ll just buy stuff for teachers. And, you know, they’ll always like, make a post and say thanks, and take pictures, which is cool to see, but just it’s, it’s been a good way. And I think teachers really have a good network too, because they they work with the same people every day. They get to know kind of the lives of the other teachers. And it’s not a bad like cause either, right? Like they’re they’re spending time with my kids, which, that’s tough enough.

Daren Phillipy 24:42

That’s true. Ozzy, that is tough enough. You all know that. Let’s talk a little bit out about listings. What do you do? You need to leverage your listings or have your listing stand out.

Mike Smallegan 24:55

So we so we’ve just. Started, like about three or four months now, our board has allowed us to do coming soon. We weren’t allowed to do that for a really long time, but we’re now able to do coming soon. So we will basically take pictures, do the marketing, and then make it coming soon for five days, and then we are doing an offer deadline period. So basically the first five days is coming soon. Once showing start, they start on Thursday, you’ll have Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then part of Monday of showings. And then we do an offer deadline where we say no offers to be reviewed or accepted until Monday at 4pm and that’s that’s what we’re doing with our our listings. But I’m also taking the data from showing time. So I will, if you go to showing time, you can actually, like, send the in notification or whatever, but you can actually copy that entire email list and put it into your I put it into my CRM and tag it with the MLS NUMBER. Then I’ll send them a mail merge email that says like, hey Daren, thanks for showing my listing at 123, Main Street. I’ve been getting a lot of questions. I wanted to make sure everybody’s on the same page. Here are the frequently asked questions, and I’ll, I’ll, I’ve been using chat GBT a lot for it, but I’ll put all those questions and stuff in there, and then I’ll also copy part of the feedback where, like, the feedback will have like a percentage, and I’ll say, like 50% of the people said the listing was priced right, or 70% said it was something they were going to write an offer in I’ll copy those charts and put it into the email, not the actual numbers, because if I got, you know, I don’t want them to know how many feedback I got, but I’ll put in there like 50% said they’re going to write an offer. And that does kind of get people, like excited about it a little more, but I’ll put that in the mass email that I’m sending out prior to the offer deadline. So I’ll say just a reminder, our deadline is at four o’clock today. If you’re considering an offer. Here’s the frequently asked questions. Let me know if you have any other you know, questions and oh yeah, we’re paying a 3% commission or whatever. Very cool. Love it. Let’s talk a little bit about

Daren Phillipy 27:25

the leverage side of things. First thing you said is, is I started a team my second year, yeah, which is awesome. What? What causes you to do that? And you also said that you failed. Tell us all about that well.

Mike Smallegan 27:41

So I started real estate in 2013 I got into it because I was kind of tired of managing employees. I had a wireless phone store. I did that for almost eight years before real estate. And I got out and I said, I don’t want to worry about minimum wage or employees anymore. I just want to worry about myself and not have to sit in a store that’s empty. So I got into real estate, I had a lot of conversations, and I didn’t understand when I got into real estate, nobody told me that I was the one doing the hiring, even as an agent, right like you are hiring a broker or team to, you know, help you succeed in real estate. And I thought I was going into all these interviews and crushing it, everybody wanted to hire me, right? So I ended up joining a team because I felt like they, one of the guys actually told me that, like, he was like, You know what, you’re you’re here to interview us, like we you need to know like that, we’re here to help you succeed. And and I didn’t understand that. He told me that I joined them, but they had a team that was similar size. They were the number one team in Grand Rapids at the time. They made a few mistakes, so I was with them for six months, and they were with Keller Williams at six month mark, I was getting ready to go on a trip, and he was like, Hey, before you go, I need to let you know that we’re going to go to be the independent brokerage by the time you come back, and I’m like, oh, okay, so no time to think about that. So they basically just told us, like, Yep, you’re going independent. And I didn’t know much. It was six months into the business, and we went independent, and they didn’t make some good decisions. They opened a few locations, they bought a bunch of expensive stuff, and then they had a few top producers, because they weren’t willing to flex on anything. They had a few top producers that they were dependent on leave them so. So then they basically sold their their team and became managers at Berkshire Hathaway. And the team kind of fell apart at that point, but this was about a year and a half in, and then they’re like, Hey, we have all these contracts with websites and Zillow and stuff like that, and we know you convert internet leads better than anybody on the team. Do you want us to send you all the leads and just pay us a referral fee? I’m like, Yeah, Sign me up. So that’s kind of how it started. I got, I mean, 35 transactions my first year in the business. Second year, I did 50. And I hired an admin. I hired two agents that were part of the office that needed more business, and then my office was like, so you’re a team? And I’m like, Yeah, I guess so what is, What’s your team name? I didn’t have one, and another guy in the team actually came up with a name for our team, which I hindsight, I probably wouldn’t have named it after me, but it’s too late now, and so yeah, small again, real estate. 2015 is kind of when it started. And then 2018 I started to kind of feel like we were capped out, like I didn’t get the support from my brokerage where we’re at. They didn’t have a good team structure. They basically every time you wanted to add an agent, it was, well, we’ll charge you 6000 for this agent, or 5000 for this agent, or I think this one’s going to be a producer, so we’re going to charge you 10,000 for this agent. I’m like, Well, how are you coming up with this? And they didn’t really have a good answer for me, and I’m like, Well, what if I want to add four more agents? What’s that look like? Well, we’ll have to have a conversation, and it’s real hard to budget and come up with a business plan, if you are making things up as you go. And so that’s that’s kind of why I decided it was time to explore our options. And that’s, that’s, I think, one big thing that I took away from being on that other team was what not to do. So both times that that other team basically said, Hey, we’re we’re changing brokerages. I had no idea until the day before. So they, they basically just said, Yep, you’re changing. Nothing you can do about it. See you later. So when I decided to make a change from Berkshire to Keller Williams, I involved my team. I had them go on the interviews with me. I I basically took all my information and notes that I put together, and it was available to them, and that’s what we did. We made a change, and the team was involved, and all of them stuck with me and moved over. And I think that’s important, because it’s it is everybody’s career, even if you know you’re the name on the sign or whatever, everybody else on the team is important, and they made a decision to join you with where you were at. So they should be part of the decision on where you’re going, if the brokerage matters at all. Right? So if you, if you don’t feel like the brokerage matters at all, then I guess they don’t really care. But most of the time, where who you work with matters.

Daren Phillipy 33:19

So I’d love to talk about this. I’ve never had this conversation with anybody at it is a challenge to move a team, and it’s also a challenge to have these kind of conversations in a discrete way and involve your team. So how are you able? Sounds like you have to have a lot of trust and be in relationship with your team. Lead us through what does that look like?

Mike Smallegan 33:45

I think they have to know that you’re you’re doing it for them, right? Like it wasn’t just for me. I They were clear on why we were doing it, and I told them, like, this is at Berkshire. It was a big deal and and I got a bigger change that I made more recently that. So yeah, Berkshire, it was basically there was five of us, and we all kind of had the same issues. We all felt kind of like limited. We felt like there wasn’t a lot of training and support for new agents. And I told them, it’s not a for sure thing, but I want to have some conversations. And if you guys and we together feel like moving is the best thing for us, then that’s a decision we’re going to make. So I didn’t, I didn’t go into it. Was saying, Hey, we’re definitely moving. I just said I wanted to make sure we’re at the best place for us at this point. So about two years ago, when my team was at 1617, agents, I kind of felt like I wasn’t getting the support from the market center we were a part of. So we made a decision to interview the other two market centers in our city and just. Excited to move our team from one market center to the other, and I had all 18 people move with me, even though, you know the team leader at that other office reached out to a few of my top producers and asked them to stay. But everybody came with very good because they they it’s it was for them, it was they knew that I was making the decision that was for them, and I was involving them in that decision, and we didn’t make it lightly either. It wasn’t, you know, I got mad one day and just said, Hey, we’re moving. It was six months to a year that we talked about it, and we, you know, came up with a plan.

Daren Phillipy 35:39

Like you, seem like you, you do a really good job building culture. I mean, if you look back behind you, that was before everybody got on. I was intrigued with your your your team and their cartoon, and then there it’s involved in even your PowerPoint presentation, your team meeting, what are some of the things that you’re doing to build that culture, to have the retention you have and and all of

Mike Smallegan 36:07

that, a few things. So every team meeting, every Wednesday, we start with one good personal thing, one good business thing. And then who did you help and who helped you? So, you know, they’ll talk about their family stuff, then maybe a business win, and then they’ll talk about somebody on the team that they helped and someone that helped them. So that’s one way that, every week, we kind of get to know each other a little better. They know that, like, I’m a straight shooter, I don’t like like bullshit. I tell them what I’m feeling and even if it’s not something they’re going to like. But I think that that’s important, that I’m not fake with them. I involve them in the decisions. They also both can. They’re not limited. So we do have a tiered commission structure. So the first 20 transactions, it’s 5050, the second tier, after you do 20 transactions, 21 to 30 is they get 60% and then after they do 31 transactions, they actually get 70% and then every calendar year we they drop back one tier. So if they make it to 70% and then next year, they’ll be at 60% all year. So I reward the top producers and encourages them to do more. And then if they want to get on 60% again, next year, they have to get to 31 again. So and I, I also put their names first. That’s a little dumb thing that some people don’t care about, but some people care an awful lot about so on, like purchase agreements. There’s teams here that the team agents don’t even make it on the purchase agreement, just the team leader. There’s one guy that’s in our market that did 260 transactions himself and says like, it doesn’t look like his team members did anything. So his team members might be getting commission, but they’re not getting any of the credit or recognition for being in the top, you know? And some people like that, right? If we’re sales people, and we’re driven by being competitive, you want to be higher on that leaderboard than other people, and if you’re not getting the recognition either, because you’re secondary on the some of the top listing agents in the city who are part of teams don’t have any past sales underneath their name on Zillow, because they’re listed secondary. And the team leader, who you know doesn’t really do real estate anymore, is listed primary on everything

Daren Phillipy 39:03

Gotcha? Yeah, I think it’s, it’s those small little things that really do, I guess, build that trust and make that connection where it’s that culture. What have you learned over the last 12 months running your team?

Mike Smallegan 39:19

Well, most recently, I’ve learned that, like, just because it’s new and it’s happening now doesn’t mean that it is something that everybody is going to be as concerned with. So for example, like COVID, going through COVID, we all had changes in our processes. We had changes in our forms that we had to have people signed and then also the policies that we had, you know, all changed during COVID, but if you started real estate six months after COVID, all that stuff is normal to you, right, like that. That’s not a change. That’s just the way it is, right. So now we’re coming into this new. A world where buyer compensation can’t be talked about, and concessions are the new commission, and all of this, you know, change, but if you go into these conversations, even with your agents, as this is new and this is scary, like it’s just the way it is, and the buyers and the people that we’re going to talk to in a month or tomorrow. May know nothing about what it was like six months ago or three days ago. This might be their first experience into real estate. So if you start your conversation with, oh, due to the NAR settlement or the legal stuff, you get people confused and scared, because you’re you’re scared, and if you pass that on to your clients, that’s the wrong way to do it. So if you go into it with confidence, and this is just how it is, and this is how things have to be, I think people are going to go with that.

Daren Phillipy 40:51

So smart, so smart. This is what I’m going to do. I’ve got one more question. Now’s the time to push your digital hands. So Jay’s finally being recognized. And I know we’ve got a few other people that have some questions coming. Um, so is it if you can only pick one, lions, pistons, Tigers or Red Wings,

Mike Smallegan 41:15

Michigan football? I’m sorry, hopefully I didn’t put that on the list? Yeah, no. I mean, I, I, my son is a major troll, so he likes to say whatever he can to get underneath people’s skin. And I don’t know if that’s why he picked the 40 Niners to be a fan of, but he’s a 40 Niners fan.

Daren Phillipy 41:38

Your kids, your son’s the genius? Yeah, I

Mike Smallegan 41:43

think it’s because Jake moody, who’s the Michigan kicker, is now a 40 Niner, but I never really got into like, pro football. I go to a lot of Michigan games, and that’s a lot of fun for me.

Daren Phillipy 41:55

That’s now you gotta, gotta be a charger, too. Since your coach went there.

Mike Smallegan 42:02

There’s so many good players like so my my son is visually impaired, and we go to a lot of games, and he gets attention because he has a big white cane. And we got to know the zenters, which Zach center was a tackle for Michigan. Now he’s with the browns, but we also know Blake Coram, who’s now at the the Rams, and there’s like, the Michigan players kind of just get moved around, and we’re trying to be fans of all the teams now that have the players, but it’s a lot of football

Daren Phillipy 42:35

you need, Mike, you go home and you tell your son, I heard that you’re a genius. That’s all I need you to tell

Mike Smallegan 42:40

him that’s what he needs. So, um, my I mentioned earlier, we have a social media manager for our team that that creates videos. And I have video on my calendar. We do it consistently. I do like, three videos a week. Is my goal. This kid has never posted a real video. He just shares sports memes on Tiktok, and he has the same amount of followers as me, and he rubs it in my face every week.

Daren Phillipy 43:10

That’s awesome. I love it. Jay, finally, your arms are tired. You’re welcome to ask the question.

Jay Hendrix 43:19

All right, hey, Jay. Hey, great job, Mike, by the way. Thank you. I’m telling you, you were preaching to the choir, man. It was very, very good,

Mike Smallegan 43:28

however, to increase the audience then,

Jay Hendrix 43:30

yeah, so our team is set up a lot like yours and doing about the same president, but there’s some of the things you said, just really challenge us, because we’re doing them exactly different. So I got a couple questions, but I’m going to, I’m going to start with my the one that that was the most important. So we’re doing exactly what, what you finished up with, where we write every transaction in our team leader’s name. So we’ve got team leader, we’ve got team members that are doing that are crushing it, doing amazing numbers, and nobody ever sees it, except for in our office, we do put it on the board that says, hey, you know Susie, or in this case, you know one of our agents, you know, will close 100 listings a year, but, but it’s done in it’s done in our team leaders name. So how is it sure we can even do, can we do that here, Daren? Because that’s a big people when I’m recruiting people, that’s a big, big thing to get over. It’s just,

Mike Smallegan 44:31

I don’t know how it is in Vegas. I’m sure you’ll have to figure that out. But here, before I I was one of the, I was the first one in Grand Rapids that put my agents as primary on everything, and me secondary. The team that I started on, they put me secondary on listings, but primary on buyer transactions.

Jay Hendrix 44:54

What does secondary mean? Does it look like? Does it look like Mike and Jay? Yeah,

Mike Smallegan 45:00

you get credit on the MLS too. So like our MLS, we use flex has the option to add a co listing agent or a secondary buyer’s agent, or whatever, which the team leader most of the time here is, is in the primary spot, and then the secondary spot is the CO listing agent. But if you go to Zillow right, which, if I’m competing against you on Zillow, I’m going to say to an to to a seller, right, like, here’s the agent finder tool. Look them up, their past sales and their reviews, and then look me up, and you make the better decision, right? Nine times out of 10, that’s me. But if I would, I

Jay Hendrix 45:46

would like to pitch against you, because I think I’ve got a good way of overcoming that, because let’s go here. So, but anyway, what I do is I just send my list of my actual transactions to them. Say, any of these people you want to talk to, let me know. I’ll get you their number. Okay, so, and I’m with my first year, so I get that, since I don’t want Laura Dane to get her question, I want to run the clock out on her, one last question is, so how do your you first said that you gave us one, one way of what your new agents get, get leads. What? What? What what does it take from a new agent coming on your team till they get put on your Zillow? However,

Mike Smallegan 46:26

however, they gotta start in the pond, and then also their sphere. So they gotta, they gotta bring this. I think we, we’re now requiring 200 sphere contacts to be added to your database, but we also give them, once they get through our boot camp and our training, they get access to our pond, which we have two ponds, one for Grand Rapids area, one for Lake Shore area, the geographically separate, separated. And in the Grand Rapids pond, there’s 20,000 people in there, and the Muskegon one, there’s 5000 and they get access to that, and they have to go through and make calls, build their nurtures up, and they don’t get on Zillow until they have two closings and three reviews. So you can get reviews from anybody, and when you’re a team on Zillow, when you get a review, it counts for the agent and the team, even if they separate in the future, so they stay on both profiles, and they have to get Yeah, three reviews. Even if you show somebody a house and it’s just you’re answering questions about real estate, they can leave a review based on that.

Jay Hendrix 47:37

Thank you. Great,

Daren Phillipy 47:38

great question. Jay Ozzy. Oh, by the way, I would, I mean Ozzy, go ahead next.